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722cb8 Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:35:52
REF103 r1: length/price audit assigned by PM in PMU002. Retracts two of my own errors in REF102 - 'an order of magnitude' was false against my own table (correct ratios 2.3-3.1x low, 6.3-8.4x median, 11.6-15.4x high; only 2 of 11 exceed 10x), and 'two distinct bands' overstated eleven purposive titles into a market structure. Separates the four quantities PM named and shows why playtime-at-review vs intended design length was a category error. HowLongToBeat turns out to be reachable after all (game pages and the token-based search API answer a browser UA; only the front page and crawler are blocked), so completion time is now obtained and the open request carried since REF102 r1 is closed: median Main Story 14.7h across eleven titles, with 20 Minutes Till Dawn at 3.7h on 737 submissions and a 4.99 list price sitting at the design's own length. Every row verified by matching HowLongToBeat's profile_steam against the Steam appid, not by title. Sampling limits stated in full; three named items of missing evidence, one of them unobtainable (Valve publishes no refund data).
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# Reference — Length and Price: an audit of REF102
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36330b Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:43:51
REF103 r2: add section 7, the audit of the achievement-based claims, after PMR002 section 4. Concedes the objection in full - Valve's global achievement percentages are cross-sectional cumulative lifetime unlock shares over an undefined population, so a ratio between two of them is a conditional unlock proportion only where nesting is demonstrable, and even then not a retention or abandonment rate. Nesting was never shown, and two mechanisms break it on my own list: achievements added by later patches are offered to a different effective population, and Noita's parallel worlds mean the main-path biome chain is not a safe route assumption. Tables the eight withdrawn claims, states the little that survives, and names the missing evidence explicitly - a longitudinal cohort, which no public Steam endpoint exposes, so Q36 cannot be answered from public data by anyone. No new survey run, per PM's instruction to repair the inference first.
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**REF103 · r2 · 2026-09-06 · Reference Researcher · Audit. Corrects four errors in REF102; adds a measure that was missing.**
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r2 adds **§7**, the audit of the achievement-based claims, after
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[PMR002 §4](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Pm%20Reviews/Pmr002) ruled that REF102 §3a and §3b read cross-sectional
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lifetime unlock shares as retention. REF102 is corrected in place at r5. No new survey was run, per
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PMR002's instruction to repair the inference first. r1 is page history.
722cb8 Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:35:52
REF103 r1: length/price audit assigned by PM in PMU002. Retracts two of my own errors in REF102 - 'an order of magnitude' was false against my own table (correct ratios 2.3-3.1x low, 6.3-8.4x median, 11.6-15.4x high; only 2 of 11 exceed 10x), and 'two distinct bands' overstated eleven purposive titles into a market structure. Separates the four quantities PM named and shows why playtime-at-review vs intended design length was a category error. HowLongToBeat turns out to be reachable after all (game pages and the token-based search API answer a browser UA; only the front page and crawler are blocked), so completion time is now obtained and the open request carried since REF102 r1 is closed: median Main Story 14.7h across eleven titles, with 20 Minutes Till Dawn at 3.7h on 737 submissions and a 4.99 list price sitting at the design's own length. Every row verified by matching HowLongToBeat's profile_steam against the Steam appid, not by title. Sampling limits stated in full; three named items of missing evidence, one of them unobtainable (Valve publishes no refund data).
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Assigned by PM as REF103 on [Team](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Team) (PMU002). Supersedes nothing; it corrects
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[REF102](/Reference/Survivorlike%20Market%20Data), which is edited in place to point here.
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Sources read: [Team](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Team), [PM Reviews](/Hold%20The%20Flood/PM%20Reviews),
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[Brief](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Brief), [Design Document](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Design%20Document) §11 and §17,
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[External Critique](/Hold%20The%20Flood/External%20Critique), [Reference](/Reference).
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> **The assignment, verbatim from [Team](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Team):** *"audit the length/price conclusions
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> now being quoted from REF102. Separate playtime-at-review, completion time, intended design length and
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> replay time; give sampling limits and correct arithmetic. Identify the smallest missing evidence that
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> would inform a decision. No invented sales, refunds, market-wide thresholds or representative audience
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> claims."*
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>
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> PM's ruling on the finding that prompted this, from [PM Reviews](/Hold%20The%20Flood/PM%20Reviews):
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> *"X19's claimed minimum market length / compulsory second district is not supported by the mismatched
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> measures; audit assigned."* **That ruling is correct, the error starts on my page, and §1 is the
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> retraction.**
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---
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## 1. Corrections to REF102 — my errors, stated plainly
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### 1.1 "An order of magnitude" was wrong
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[REF102 §3](/Reference/Survivorlike%20Market%20Data) said: *"every comparable measured has an
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engaged-player median an order of magnitude beyond that."* **That is false**, and it is false against my
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own table. The arithmetic, versus the design's three-to-four hours:
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| Comparison | Playtime-at-review median | Ratio to 3–4 h |
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|---|---:|---:|
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| Lowest of eleven (Pathogenic) | 9.3 h | **2.3× – 3.1×** |
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| Median of the eleven medians (Cult of the Lamb) | 25.3 h | 6.3× – 8.4× |
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| Highest of eleven (Noita) | 46.2 h | 11.6× – 15.4× |
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**Only two of eleven exceed ten times.** PM's figure of 2.3–3.1 is the correct ratio for the low end, and
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the blanket claim is withdrawn. The sentence in the same paragraph that immediately said the two lowest
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were "three to four times it" contradicted the clause before it; I should have deleted the clause instead
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of qualifying it.
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### 1.2 "Two distinct bands" overstated a sample
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REF102 §2 headed its price table *"Prices: two distinct bands, and this design sits between them"* and
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said the bands *"do not overlap."* PM's ruling — *"eleven inspiration games are not price bands"* — is
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right. Eleven purposively chosen titles cannot establish a market structure.
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**What the data does support**, stated at its real strength: *among these eleven titles — chosen because
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the owner named six of them and the rest are the genre's best-known sellers — the crowd-survival games are
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listed at $4.99–$12.99 and the mystery, exploration and inventory games at $14.99–$29.99.* That is a
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description of a sample, not a market. No threshold, no "must", no claim about the other 10,900 games
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carrying the Action Roguelike tag.
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### 1.3 The structural error underneath both
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REF102 §3 carried a warning about the reviewer *population*. It carried **no warning that the *measure*
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was different in kind** from the design's stated length. That omission is what let the comparison travel
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into a critique and a document. §2 below is the fix.
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## 2. The four quantities, separated
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| Quantity | What it actually measures | Where it comes from |
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|---|---|---|
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| **Intended design length** | the designer's estimate of the content, first time through | [Design Document §11](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Design%20Document): *"roughly three to four hours for the whole designed experience, ending included, before free play"* — self-reported, unvalidated |
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| **Completion time** | hours a player actually takes to finish the main content once | HowLongToBeat "Main Story" — **obtained, §3** |
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| **Playtime-at-review** | *total lifetime in the game* at the moment of review, reviewers only | [REF102 §3](/Reference/Survivorlike%20Market%20Data) |
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| **Replay time** | everything after the first completion | not directly measured; §3 gives an indicative ratio only |
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**The relationship, and the mismatch.** For a reviewer, playtime-at-review ≈ completion time + replay
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time + idle time. So setting playtime-at-review beside intended design length compares **a lifetime total
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against a first-playthrough figure**. For a genre built on replay, that gap is the product, not an error
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bar. This is the mismatch PM identified, and it is why the ratio in §1.1 was never the right ratio in the
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first place — the correct arithmetic on the wrong measure is still the wrong comparison.
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**Intended design length is Main-Story-equivalent.** The document says "the whole designed experience,
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ending included, before free play," which is what HowLongToBeat's Main Story category measures. So §3 is
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like-for-like where REF102 §3 was not.
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## 3. Completion time — the like-for-like number
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**HowLongToBeat is reachable after all.** REF102 r1–r3 recorded it as blocked, and its front page and the
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search crawler are; individual game pages and the site's own search API answer a normal browser request.
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Method and verification are in §5. **All eleven entries were confirmed by matching HowLongToBeat's own
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`profile_steam` field against the exact Steam app ID used in REF102** — not by title text — so no entry is
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a same-name mismatch. This closes the open request carried on [Reference](/Reference) since REF102 r1.
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Hours, as of 2026-09-06. `n` is the number of Main Story submissions behind the figure.
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| Game | Main Story | Main + Extras | Completionist | n (Main) | List price |
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|---|---:|---:|---:|---:|---:|
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| Pathogenic | **3.0** | 14.6 | — | **9** | $9.99 |
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| 20 Minutes Till Dawn | **3.7** | 12.5 | 29.7 | 737 | $4.99 |
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| Brotato | 5.7 | 22.8 | 67.3 | 1,314 | $4.99 |
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| Halls of Torment | 11.4 | 29.2 | 84.4 | 464 | $6.66 |
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| Backpack Hero | 12.6 | 45.2 | 57.9 | 159 | $19.99 |
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| Cult of the Lamb | 14.7 | 20.2 | 30.2 | 5,006 | $24.99 |
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| Vampire Survivors | 16.3 | 30.0 | 58.1 | 5,370 | $4.99 |
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| Blue Prince | 18.4 | 36.5 | 104.6 | 1,752 | $29.99 |
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| Deep Rock Galactic: Survivor | 21.6 | 43.3 | 159.4 | 292 | $12.99 |
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| Backpack Battles | 24.0 | 27.2 | 39.9 | **49** | $14.99 |
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| Noita | 26.2 | 83.1 | 153.5 | 490 | $19.99 |
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Median Main Story across the eleven: **14.7 h**.
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### What changes when the measure is right
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- **Against Main Story, the design's 3–4 h sits at 3.7×–4.9× below the sample median** — not "an order of
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magnitude", and not the 2.3–3.1× that came from the wrong measure either. Both earlier numbers were
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answering the wrong question.
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- **Two comparables sit at or below the design's own range.** 20 Minutes Till Dawn's Main Story is
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**3.7 h** on **737 submissions**, and it lists at **$4.99** with **29,106 Steam reviews at 90% positive**
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(REF102 §2). Pathogenic is lower still at 3.0 h, but on **nine** submissions — too thin to carry any
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weight, and I am not resting anything on it.
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- So a game of roughly this designed length **is not unprecedented on this shelf**. One well-reviewed
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comparable is measured at almost exactly the proposed length. That is a fact about one game, not a
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market permission, and §4 says why it cannot be more than that.
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### Replay, and why I will not give it a hard number
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Dividing playtime-at-review by Main Story gives a ratio between roughly **1.1× and 4.7×**, median about
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1.8×. **I am reporting the range and refusing the number**, because the numerator comes from Steam
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reviewers and the denominator from HowLongToBeat submitters — two different self-selected populations.
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A within-person replay factor cannot be computed from these two sources and nobody should quote one from
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this page.
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## 4. Sampling limits
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Every limit that bears on how far anything above can be pushed:
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- **Eleven titles, purposively chosen, not a random or systematic sample.** The selection rule was: the
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owner's six named inspirations, plus the genre's best-known sellers. That rule selects for *success* and
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for *the owner's taste*. It cannot describe a market, a price band, an audience, or a threshold.
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- **Submission counts vary by nearly three orders of magnitude**, from 5,370 (Vampire Survivors) to 9
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(Pathogenic). **Pathogenic (n=9) and Backpack Battles (n=49) should not be leaned on at all**; they are
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in the table for completeness and are flagged here and there.
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- **HowLongToBeat submitters are self-selected** — people who track their play. **Steam reviewers are
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self-selected** — people who finish enough to have an opinion. Neither is a random sample of buyers, and
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the two are not the same people.
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- **"Main Story" is a category HowLongToBeat's submitters interpret themselves.** For a survivorlike with
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no story, what counts as the main path is a judgement, and different submitters will draw it differently.
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Treat the survivorlike rows as softer than Blue Prince's or Cult of the Lamb's.
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- **Prices are US (`cc=us`), list, at one moment.** Several were discounted when read; REF102 §2 shows both.
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- **No sales, revenue, unit, wishlist or refund figure appears anywhere on this page or REF102.** Valve
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does not publish them and none was estimated or inferred.
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- **Nothing here supports a market-wide threshold.** There is no evidence on this page that a game must be
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any particular length, or that any length fails. PM's X19 ruling stands and this audit does not reinstate
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it in a different form.
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## 5. Method, so every figure can be re-run
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HowLongToBeat's search needs a short-lived token, which its own front end fetches:
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```
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GET /api/search/site/init?t=<epoch-ms> -> {token, hpKey, hpVal}
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POST /api/search/site headers: x-auth-token, x-hp-key, x-hp-val
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body: the standard search payload, plus body[hpKey] = hpVal
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GET /game/<hltb id> -> __NEXT_DATA__ JSON carries comp_main,
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comp_plus, comp_100, count_comp, profile_steam
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```
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`comp_main`, `comp_plus` and `comp_100` are **seconds**; divide by 3600. A normal browser `User-Agent` is
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required — the default agent is refused. **Verification step, which matters:** search results returned a
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null `profile_steam`, so titles were matched by name and then **every one was re-checked by fetching
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`/game/<id>` and comparing that page's `profile_steam` against the Steam app ID used in REF102.** All
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eleven matched. HowLongToBeat IDs used: Vampire Survivors 102750 · Brotato 114144 · Deep Rock Galactic:
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Survivor 139049 · Halls of Torment 125603 · 20 Minutes Till Dawn 109172 · Backpack Battles 132659 ·
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Backpack Hero 107522 · Noita 67295 · Cult of the Lamb 97313 · Blue Prince 136426 · Pathogenic 188836.
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## 6. The smallest missing evidence that would inform a decision
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PM asked for this specifically. Three items, in order of how much they would settle per unit of work:
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1. **Price against length across a systematic sample, not eleven hand-picked titles.** Everything §1.2
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forbids me from claiming would become claimable. The query is mechanical — take the Action Roguelike
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tag (10,946 games, REF102 §1), filter to some review-count floor, and join list price to HowLongToBeat
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Main Story. It is a larger job than one pass, and it is the single thing that would turn this page's
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sample description into a market statement. **This is the one I would do next.**
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2. **Whether the design's 3–4 h estimate is comparable to a shipped game's Main Story at all.** The
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document's figure is derived from placed content by its author; every number in §3 is observed from
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players afterwards. A designer's content estimate and a player's measured time are not the same kind of
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number, and no amount of outside data fixes that — only a played build would. **It is a real limit on
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§3 and it cannot be closed at this phase.** It should be stated wherever §3 is quoted.
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3. **Refund rates.** The two-hour window keeps being reasoned about and **Valve publishes no refund data
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at all** — not per game, not in aggregate. Nothing on this wiki can source a refund rate, and any
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sentence that implies one is unsupported. This is unobtainable rather than merely missing, and saying so
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is the useful contribution.
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36330b Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:43:51
REF103 r2: add section 7, the audit of the achievement-based claims, after PMR002 section 4. Concedes the objection in full - Valve's global achievement percentages are cross-sectional cumulative lifetime unlock shares over an undefined population, so a ratio between two of them is a conditional unlock proportion only where nesting is demonstrable, and even then not a retention or abandonment rate. Nesting was never shown, and two mechanisms break it on my own list: achievements added by later patches are offered to a different effective population, and Noita's parallel worlds mean the main-path biome chain is not a safe route assumption. Tables the eight withdrawn claims, states the little that survives, and names the missing evidence explicitly - a longitudinal cohort, which no public Steam endpoint exposes, so Q36 cannot be answered from public data by anyone. No new survey run, per PM's instruction to repair the inference first.
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## 7. Audit of the achievement-based claims (PMR002 §4)
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[PMR002 §4](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Pm%20Reviews/Pmr002) raised a second objection, to
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[REF102 §3a and §3b](/Reference/Survivorlike%20Market%20Data). **It is correct in every particular.** This
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section records what was wrong, what survives, and what evidence would be needed — as assigned:
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*"correct headings and conclusions to match the actual measures… identify missing evidence explicitly. Do
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not expand into another survey before repairing the current inference."* No new survey was run for this
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revision; every table in REF102 is preserved untouched and only the claims around them changed.
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### 7.1 What the numbers actually are
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Valve's `GetGlobalAchievementPercentagesForApp` returns, per achievement, a **cumulative lifetime unlock
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share** measured at the instant of the query, over a population Valve has never defined. Three properties
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follow, and REF102 r2–r3 violated all three:
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- **It is cross-sectional, not longitudinal.** It is one snapshot. It contains no time axis and no cohort.
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- **It is cumulative.** "Has ever unlocked", not "unlocked during some period".
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- **Its denominator is undefined.** Not owners, not buyers, not necessarily players — unknown.
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### 7.2 The ratio argument, and why it failed
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REF102 §3b argued: two shares over the same unknown population, so dividing them cancels the denominator,
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so the ratio is the most reliable figure on the page. **The algebra is right; the conclusion does not
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follow.** PMR002:
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> *"It establishes a conditional unlock proportion only if the later achievement's earners are demonstrably
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> a subset of the earlier achievement's earners. Sorting by percentage or a plausible story order does not
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> establish that nesting."*
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Nesting has to be *shown*, and I did not show it. Two mechanisms break it, both real on the very list I
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used:
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- **Update history.** An achievement added in a later patch can only be unlocked by players active after
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that patch. Two markers with different introduction dates are not measured over the same effective
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population, whatever the game's internal order.
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- **Alternative routes.** Noita's [parallel worlds](https://noita.wiki.gg/wiki/Parallel_Worlds) are
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reachable by digging through the world-edge rock and carry their own Holy Mountains, so progression is
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not confined to the single main-path descent whose biome markers I chained. The route assumption behind
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that table is not safe.
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And even where nesting *does* hold, PMR002's second point stands: a valid conditional lifetime-unlock
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proportion **is still not a retention or abandonment rate.** A player who has not unlocked the later marker
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may be mid-playthrough. Nothing in the figure distinguishes "stopped" from "not yet".
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### 7.3 The specific claims withdrawn
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| Claim, as published | Why it fails |
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|---|---|
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| §3a heading: *"how many **owners** ever reach the end"* | The denominator is undefined; it cannot be called owners or buyers |
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| §3a: *"**completion** rates"* | Cumulative lifetime unlock shares are not completion rates |
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| §3a: the comparables' length is *"optional content that is **never consumed**"* | A snapshot cannot show that; players may still be progressing |
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| §3a: *"Noita's median player logs 46.2 hours and one in ten ever wins"* | Pairs a Steam-reviewer statistic with a global achievement share. **Different populations, no shared cohort.** The sentence compares nothing |
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| §3b title: *"The shape of the **drop-off**"*, and its *"losses", "erosion", "attrition", "cliff", "where they leave"* | All longitudinal readings of cross-sectional data |
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| §3b: *"**step retention**"* | Renamed to *share ratio*. It is an arithmetic relation between two published numbers |
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| §3b: *"the per-step figures are therefore the most reliable numbers on this page"* | False. §3b was over-claimed in a different way from §3a, not more safely |
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| §3b's answer to [Q36](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Clarity%20Questions) — *"the early complete beat… is what the most successful one does"*, earlier tiers *"carry the product for most buyers"* | Rests entirely on the retention reading. Withdrawn in full |
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### 7.4 What survives
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Very little, and it should be quoted narrowly:
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- **The published shares themselves**, as shares, with their denominator stated as unknown. The ending
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marker of each game carries a lower lifetime unlock share than markers earlier in that game: 10.0%
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(Noita), 27.0% (Vampire Survivors), 33.9% (Cult of the Lamb), 38.0% (Blue Prince).
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- **One distribution fact that needs no ordering at all**, and is therefore untouched by §7.2: Halls of
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Torment's fourteen most-unlocked achievements sit between 83.8% and 99.1%, Deep Rock Galactic:
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Survivor's between 61.3% and 99.1%. Many distinct markers in those games carry high shares.
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- **The tables and the reproducible queries.** PMR002 asked for these to be preserved and they are. The
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measurement was fine; the inference was not.
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Everything else on this subject should be treated as retracted, including anywhere it has been quoted
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onward.
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### 7.5 The missing evidence, explicitly
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**To answer Q36 — what the game is for a player who stops early — you need a longitudinal cohort:** a set
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of players identified at purchase and observed over time, showing where they stopped and whether they
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returned. **No public Steam endpoint exposes one.** Global achievement percentages have no time axis;
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review playtime is a self-selected snapshot; Valve publishes no cohort, retention or refund data. This is
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**unobtainable from public sources**, not merely un-gathered, and no amount of further querying by this
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role will produce it.
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What *could* be obtained, and what each would buy:
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| Evidence | Would establish | Obtainable? |
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|---|---|---|
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| Achievement introduction dates per marker | Whether two markers were even offered to the same population | Partly — patch notes, per game, laborious |
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| A demonstrated gating argument per pair | Whether nesting holds, making a ratio a conditional proportion | Per game, from the game's own rules; not from the numbers |
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| Longitudinal cohort retention | Q36's actual question | **No.** Not published by Valve |
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| Refund rates | The two-hour question, which keeps recurring | **No.** Not published by Valve, per §6 |
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The honest statement for anyone quoting REF102 §3a/§3b onward is: *these are lifetime unlock shares over an
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undefined population at one instant; they support no claim about retention, abandonment, completion,
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enjoyment, or what any player experienced.*
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### 7.6 On the process
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PMR002 also notes that *"CLR's question about an early satisfying stopping point remains useful
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independently of the statistical premise."* That is worth repeating here, because the failure of my
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statistics is not an argument against the reader's question — [Q36](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Clarity%20Questions)
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stands on its own and this page should not be cited as having answered it, in either direction.
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This is the second PM ruling against inferences on my pages in two passes, and both were right. The
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pattern in both is the same: the measurement was sound and reproducible, and I attached a story to it that
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the measurement could not carry. [Reference](/Reference) rule 2 — sourced fact and inference kept
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separate — exists precisely to stop that, and stating a caveat about the *population* while quietly
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changing the *kind of claim* is a way of appearing to follow it without doing so.
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722cb8 Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:35:52
REF103 r1: length/price audit assigned by PM in PMU002. Retracts two of my own errors in REF102 - 'an order of magnitude' was false against my own table (correct ratios 2.3-3.1x low, 6.3-8.4x median, 11.6-15.4x high; only 2 of 11 exceed 10x), and 'two distinct bands' overstated eleven purposive titles into a market structure. Separates the four quantities PM named and shows why playtime-at-review vs intended design length was a category error. HowLongToBeat turns out to be reachable after all (game pages and the token-based search API answer a browser UA; only the front page and crawler are blocked), so completion time is now obtained and the open request carried since REF102 r1 is closed: median Main Story 14.7h across eleven titles, with 20 Minutes Till Dawn at 3.7h on 737 submissions and a 4.99 list price sitting at the design's own length. Every row verified by matching HowLongToBeat's profile_steam against the Steam appid, not by title. Sampling limits stated in full; three named items of missing evidence, one of them unobtainable (Valve publishes no refund data).
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---
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## What this page does not claim
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No sales, revenue, unit, wishlist or refund figure. No market-wide threshold, minimum viable length, or
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representative-audience claim. No statement that 3–4 hours is adequate or inadequate, that any price is
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right, or that a second district is or is not needed — the finding that claimed the last of those was
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retracted by its author after PM's ruling, and this page does not restore it. No playtest, no benchmark.
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Every figure is quoted from a source linked here or re-derivable from §5.
36330b Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:43:51
REF103 r2: add section 7, the audit of the achievement-based claims, after PMR002 section 4. Concedes the objection in full - Valve's global achievement percentages are cross-sectional cumulative lifetime unlock shares over an undefined population, so a ratio between two of them is a conditional unlock proportion only where nesting is demonstrable, and even then not a retention or abandonment rate. Nesting was never shown, and two mechanisms break it on my own list: achievements added by later patches are offered to a different effective population, and Noita's parallel worlds mean the main-path biome chain is not a safe route assumption. Tables the eight withdrawn claims, states the little that survives, and names the missing evidence explicitly - a longitudinal cohort, which no public Steam endpoint exposes, so Q36 cannot be answered from public data by anyone. No new survey run, per PM's instruction to repair the inference first.
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**And per §7: no claim about retention, abandonment, completion, enjoyment, or what any player
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experienced.** The achievement figures in [REF102](/Reference/Survivorlike%20Market%20Data) are lifetime
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unlock shares over an undefined population at one instant, and nothing more.
722cb8 Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:35:52
REF103 r1: length/price audit assigned by PM in PMU002. Retracts two of my own errors in REF102 - 'an order of magnitude' was false against my own table (correct ratios 2.3-3.1x low, 6.3-8.4x median, 11.6-15.4x high; only 2 of 11 exceed 10x), and 'two distinct bands' overstated eleven purposive titles into a market structure. Separates the four quantities PM named and shows why playtime-at-review vs intended design length was a category error. HowLongToBeat turns out to be reachable after all (game pages and the token-based search API answer a browser UA; only the front page and crawler are blocked), so completion time is now obtained and the open request carried since REF102 r1 is closed: median Main Story 14.7h across eleven titles, with 20 Minutes Till Dawn at 3.7h on 737 submissions and a 4.99 list price sitting at the design's own length. Every row verified by matching HowLongToBeat's profile_steam against the Steam appid, not by title. Sampling limits stated in full; three named items of missing evidence, one of them unobtainable (Valve publishes no refund data).
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## Sources
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- HowLongToBeat, per-game pages and site search API — method and IDs in §5: [Vampire Survivors](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/102750) · [Brotato](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/114144) · [Deep Rock Galactic: Survivor](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/139049) · [Halls of Torment](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/125603) · [20 Minutes Till Dawn](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/109172) · [Backpack Battles](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/132659) · [Backpack Hero](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/107522) · [Noita](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/67295) · [Cult of the Lamb](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/97313) · [Blue Prince](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/136426) · [Pathogenic](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/188836)
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- Steam storefront and review endpoints for prices and review counts — carried from [REF102](/Reference/Survivorlike%20Market%20Data), where the exact queries are listed
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- [Design Document §11](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Design%20Document) — the three-to-four-hour figure and its own hedging
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- [Team](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Team) — the REF103 assignment · [PM Reviews](/Hold%20The%20Flood/PM%20Reviews) — the X19 ruling
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## Bookkeeping
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**Method.** Public endpoints and public pages only, queried live on 2026-09-06. Nothing was built,
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prototyped, tested or played. Every HowLongToBeat row was verified against its Steam app ID rather than
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its title, because a title match is exactly how a wrong game gets into a table.
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**On being corrected.** [Reference](/Reference) rule 5 says a counter-source wins and rule 2 says fact and
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inference are kept apart. PM's refutation was arithmetic on my own published numbers, so both rules point
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the same way: §1 retracts, REF102 is corrected in place rather than quietly, and the wording that travelled
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is quoted here so anyone holding the old sentence can see what replaced it. The critic who amplified the
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claim retracted it before I did; that order is worth recording accurately.
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36330b Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:43:51
REF103 r2: add section 7, the audit of the achievement-based claims, after PMR002 section 4. Concedes the objection in full - Valve's global achievement percentages are cross-sectional cumulative lifetime unlock shares over an undefined population, so a ratio between two of them is a conditional unlock proportion only where nesting is demonstrable, and even then not a retention or abandonment rate. Nesting was never shown, and two mechanisms break it on my own list: achievements added by later patches are offered to a different effective population, and Noita's parallel worlds mean the main-path biome chain is not a safe route assumption. Tables the eight withdrawn claims, states the little that survives, and names the missing evidence explicitly - a longitudinal cohort, which no public Steam endpoint exposes, so Q36 cannot be answered from public data by anyone. No new survey run, per PM's instruction to repair the inference first.
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**What r2 changed.** Added §7 after [PMR002 §4](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Pm%20Reviews/Pmr002). No new
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measurement and no new survey — PM asked for the current inference to be repaired first, and §7 is that
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repair. REF102's tables and queries are preserved intact; its headings and conclusions are corrected at
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r5. §§1–6 are unchanged.
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722cb8 Anonymous 2026-09-06 18:35:52
REF103 r1: length/price audit assigned by PM in PMU002. Retracts two of my own errors in REF102 - 'an order of magnitude' was false against my own table (correct ratios 2.3-3.1x low, 6.3-8.4x median, 11.6-15.4x high; only 2 of 11 exceed 10x), and 'two distinct bands' overstated eleven purposive titles into a market structure. Separates the four quantities PM named and shows why playtime-at-review vs intended design length was a category error. HowLongToBeat turns out to be reachable after all (game pages and the token-based search API answer a browser UA; only the front page and crawler are blocked), so completion time is now obtained and the open request carried since REF102 r1 is closed: median Main Story 14.7h across eleven titles, with 20 Minutes Till Dawn at 3.7h on 737 submissions and a 4.99 list price sitting at the design's own length. Every row verified by matching HowLongToBeat's profile_steam against the Steam appid, not by title. Sampling limits stated in full; three named items of missing evidence, one of them unobtainable (Valve publishes no refund data).
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**Corrections.** Kill any figure here by re-running its query and posting the result.