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0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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# Hold The Horde — Death and Persistence
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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The [Owner Brief](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Brief) requires that death returns the astronaut to the ship for a reason hidden in the station. Damage and oxygen depletion both kill. The station shifts after each death; installed objects and shift timing are specified in [Death Shift and Rescue Continuity](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Death%20Shift%20And%20Rescue%20Continuity) (pending owner decision): an installed object keeps one location and travels with its room, never with the astronaut, and the shift advances once per death after the carried set has returned.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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## The rule
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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**Death returns the astronaut to the ship with everything they were carrying.** Equipment brought from home, salvage found that trip, records, a part still in the rig — all of it arrives aboard. There is no cache and no recovery trip.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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Two boundaries keep this from duplicating anything:
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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- **Resources already spent stay spent.** Oxygen breathed, salvage consumed by a rig, a canister emptied — these were gone before death and do not come back.
11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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- **Equipment deliberately left elsewhere stays there.** A relay seated in a station fixture, a part installed in a project aboard, a canister handed to someone — these were not in the pack. They are where the player put them, which is what they chose.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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**Discoveries are unaffected.** Journal records and discovered-location references persist through death, as they do through any return.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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**Rescued people.** A rescued person is a route-and-transfer outcome. Someone already sent to the ship stays aboard. Someone rescued but not yet sent is not retroactively delivered by the astronaut's death, and remains where the rescue rules leave them. Under the protected-retreat safeguard (pending owner decision), a person already in transfer with an armed autonomous retreat reaches their named abort refuge alive and unsent before the shift; this is a world outcome the astronaut does not learn aboard, and the person's present state stays unconfirmed until the player observes that refuge again in person.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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**World state.** A discovered room keeps its **identity** and everything durable in it — completed work, installed objects, latched seams. What does not persist is its **current adjacency**: after a shift the route there is historical, and the place may be reached differently or not yet at all. Enemies, traps and mechanisms may reset on their own terms, and deliberate infrastructure changes the player made (the owner's example is unlocked doors) persist as those rules describe. A living return changes no adjacency and does not replace the creatures already defeated in that arrangement; only a death shift selects a new finite population.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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## What returning alive and dying each give
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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| | Returning alive | Dying |
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|---|---|---|
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| Equipment brought from the ship | Comes home | Comes home |
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| Salvage and equipment found that trip | Comes home | Comes home |
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| Consumed oxygen, spent materials | Already spent | Already spent |
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| Parts left installed in the station or aboard | Where they were left | Where they were left |
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| Records and discovered locations | Retained | Retained |
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| A person rescued that trip | Joins the colony if actually sent | Stays aboard if already sent; otherwise still in the station |
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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## What death actually costs
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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The costs are real, but they are all time and position:
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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- The expedition ends *there*. Whatever the player was partway through — a route, a staged action, a rescue in progress — stops, and the next trip starts from the ship rather than from where they were.
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- Progress inside a staged piece of work follows the ordinary rules: completed checkpoints persist, an unfinished stage is lost.
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- Anything the player was going to do next, they now do on another trip.
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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That is a modest cost: death is an interruption rather than a loss.
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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## Designing around it
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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Returning by death can be useful — a player far out, low on oxygen, with a full pack, can die and arrive home with everything. That is a consequence of the rule, and the design should treat it as a legitimate way to end a trip.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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What that asks of the rest of the design is that **going out be worth doing for reasons other than avoiding loss**. A trip is worth taking because of where it lets the player get to, what they can reach with the supply they carry, and what they want to be doing. Those hold regardless of how the trip ends. Nothing here should be balanced by inventing a penalty on the other side.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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11380d Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:08:58
Owner decision 2026-09-08: carried equipment and loot return with the astronaut on death; cache and rollback withdrawn, spent and installed boundaries stated as non-penalties
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It also means the interesting pressure sits earlier: what to carry, how far to push, whether to spend a part on something in the station, and whether to commit to a rescue. Those choices all still bite, because capacity is still limited and what is spent or installed is still gone.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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fa518f Anonymous 2026-09-08 13:10:42
Keep superseded comparison in revision history; state only the live consequence that no stranding dependency remains
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## A dependency that no longer exists
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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Because nothing **carried** is left behind, the player cannot be stranded by a death. Objects the player deliberately installed, dropped or handed over are a different case: they stay where they were put, at a room whose current route may now be historical, and retrieving one is ordinary later work rather than a loss. There is no need for a rule guaranteeing a minimum useful expedition after a loss.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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## Open questions
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
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8834a6 Anonymous 2026-09-14 19:13:03
Remove text slop: disclaimers, process metadata, restatements and hedge tags; no rule changes (owner readability review, 14 Sep)
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- Oxygen quantities.
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- Map structure.
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- Rescue logistics and the full rescue and colony systems.
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- Whether a survivor can ever be permanently lost.
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- The cause of revival, which remains open across every candidate story.
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- The protected-retreat safeguard and the layout-stabilisation branch are pending owner decision.
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- These rules are untested; numbers are proposals.