Blame

0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
1
# Hold The Horde — Death and Persistence
2
7551f3 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:51:10
Integrate reviewed death comparison with qualified costs
3
**Status.** PM provisionally integrated this written comparison after focused review and author response. The cache is the current working proposal, not an owner requirement or validated gameplay choice. Its minimum useful-expedition dependency remains open. The [Owner Brief](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Brief) requires that death returns the astronaut to the ship for a reason hidden in the station; that cause is not addressed here. Damage and oxygen depletion both kill — that is fixed; oxygen quantities are not. Map structure, rescue logistics and colony systems remain undecided. Every claim below about how these rules would shape play is a prediction, not an observation.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
4
5
## Recommended rules: recoverable cache, retained record
6
7
- Equipment and salvage carried at the moment of death remain as a cache at the place of death, contents unchanged.
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
8
- A cache persists until recovered. A later death does not destroy an earlier one; caches coexist, and entity resets do not disturb them, a cache being the player's property rather than station state.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
9
- Journal records and discovered-location references persist through death.
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
10
- Colony members already sent to the ship are unaffected by the astronaut's death.
11
- A person rescued but not yet sent to the ship is not retroactively rescued by revival and remains an unresolved situation in the station. Whether such a person can be permanently lost is a separate rescue and colony decision, not settled here in either direction.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
12
- World changes are limited to location continuity. Enemies, traps and mechanisms may reset on their own terms.
13
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
14
**What death threatens, stated plainly.** Nothing destroys a cache. Dying costs the use of everything carried until a journey retrieves it, leaves new salvage unbanked, and may demand capabilities no longer to hand. That is the whole stake; naming it is better than implying one the rules do not create. Decay or fragility would turn a recovery choice into a deadline and push toward the compulsory errand this arrangement exists to avoid, so none is proposed.
15
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
16
## State table
17
18
| | Returning alive | Dying |
19
|---|---|---|
20
| Equipment brought from the ship | Returns with the astronaut, immediately reusable | Held in the cache; unavailable until recovered |
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
21
| Equipment and salvage acquired during the expedition | Banked on arrival | Held in the cache; never banked by dying |
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
22
| Stored clues | Retained | Retained |
23
| Relevant world changes | Discovered locations persist; entity state may reset | Identical |
7551f3 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:51:10
Integrate reviewed death comparison with qualified costs
24
| A person rescued during the expedition | Joins the colony only if actually sent to the ship | Remains in the colony if already sent; otherwise remains an unresolved station situation |
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
25
26
## The next choice after each outcome
27
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
28
Returning alive asks what to do with what was banked: install it, hold it, or re-outfit for a deeper objective. Dying asks whether to retrieve the cache now, defer it, or write it off and spend the retained knowledge elsewhere. Where death interrupted a rescue, revisiting that person competes with retrieving the cache and with any other objective; which pull is stronger depends on the situation and is not fixed by these rules.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
29
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
30
## The alternative
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
31
32
**Expedition rollback.** Equipment held before departure returns with the astronaut; equipment and salvage acquired during the failed expedition are lost; records persist; rollback is limited to the objective's state rather than the whole station.
33
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
34
Rollback has real strengths. It protects an assembled build from confiscation, which serves expressive play directly, and it produces no gear-recovery errands and no compounding, because the player resumes with the capability they left home with.
35
7551f3 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:51:10
Integrate reviewed death comparison with qualified costs
36
**Why the cache is still recommended.** Both arrangements retain the inventory tradeoff: bringing more equipment leaves less space for salvage. Rollback removes the risk of losing access to equipment brought from the ship; the cache adds that risk to the same loadout choice. The cache is preferred here because choosing what to carry also determines which capabilities may become unavailable after death. That is an additional cost, not something the brief requires, and it may discourage the expressive builds the game also wants.
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
37
7551f3 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:51:10
Integrate reviewed death comparison with qualified costs
38
**Deliberate death can be attractive under either arrangement.** Under either arrangement, a player who has recorded what they came for, whose pack holds little they need soon, and who is far from home on thin oxygen, may find dying preferable to walking back. Only the aftermath differs: rollback returns the gear and destroys new material, the cache keeps everything and charges a journey. Whether that behaviour is acceptable is untested and not settled here.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
39
7551f3 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:51:10
Integrate reviewed death comparison with qualified costs
40
A third arrangement returns everything carried, including newly acquired salvage. It would bank new material on death and could make dying an attractive shortcut. This comparison instead favors requiring live return to bank new material; that is a design preference, not proof that deliberate death would always be better under the third arrangement.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
41
42
## Accepted costs
43
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
44
- **Failure can compound.** The expedition that killed the astronaut may be the one that must be repeated with less.
45
- **Confiscation risk may suppress experimentation.** An expressive build is a large investment of carried parts, and a rule that withholds parts discourages that investment. A predicted effect.
46
- **Retained records do not guarantee discovery.** Retention has two distinct benefits and neither ranks above the other: it avoids recapturing evidence already understood, and it preserves evidence not yet read for a later inference. It resolves a dependency left open by [Oxygen and Observation](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Oxygen%20and%20Observation) without making discovery riskless.
47
48
## Recovery, and when it is not available
49
50
Recovery needs more than a place name: contents must persist as they were and the site stay locatable. Four situations are distinct and should not be collapsed.
51
52
- **Available** — the cache can be reached, carried and returned with the capability now aboard. Retrieval is a genuine choice against other objectives.
7551f3 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:51:10
Integrate reviewed death comparison with qualified costs
53
- **Deferred** — not reachable yet, but perhaps later as reach or capability grows. The cache waits without decay. Deferring avoids an immediate recovery trip, while its equipment remains unavailable and its salvage unbanked.
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
54
- **Abandoned** — the player judges the contents not worth the trip. This must remain credible.
55
- **Compulsory** — retrieval is possible but no reasonable alternative exists. This is the failure state, and the condition that would reopen the preference.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
56
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
57
Dying of depletion does not by itself put a cache beyond reach. Depletion often reflects time spent searching, fighting or detouring rather than distance, and a direct informed route may comfortably reach what a wandering one could not; a lighter loadout can also carry more canisters. Where a cache genuinely cannot be reached, carried and returned within supply, recovery is deferred rather than forced.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
58
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
59
**Equipment-system dependency.** The ship must be able to outfit a minimum useful expedition even when everything carried is cached, including a means of carrying oxygen. That is a requirement on the equipment system, not something established elsewhere: [Build Comparison](/Hold%20The%20Flood/Build%20Comparison)'s basic-defence rule concerns two example builds holding the compressor head and does not establish an equipment-free floor.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
60
61
## What would reopen this preference
62
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
63
Recovery becoming compulsory rather than a genuine choice; replacements scarce enough that abandoning a cache is never credible; or later owner-authorised observation showing experimentation collapsing under confiscation risk. Rollback would then be the more honest arrangement.
0da3e5 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:07:10
Death and Persistence: recoverable cache with retained records, compared against expedition rollback; state table, dependencies and reopening conditions
64
65
## Unresolved
66
bb2c95 Anonymous 2026-09-07 21:44:08
Author response to review 117: cache lifecycle and stake stated plainly; loadout-protection rationale replaces cheap-exit; four recovery states; depletion reach corrected; journal ranking removed; delivery conditioned on sending
67
Oxygen quantities; map generation and respawn rules; the full rescue and colony systems; whether an authored survivor can ever be permanently lost; whether deliberate death is an acceptable tactic; and the cause of revival, untouched.